INDIAN MUSIC FORUMS

Sign up Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
chochemerlyn

Registered:
Posts: 4
Reply with quote  #1 
I was wondering what tabla players on here think are the best electronic or software options for practicing tabla accompaniment and solo. Thanks.
0
mangataot

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #2 
This is by no means a traditional option... but something very new and experimental!
Give it a try on the site and see what you think..

http://www.tablalab.com - Riyaz :1

There are numerous lehara/nagma machines out there for many platforms...
I think iLehara / iTabla for ios is well respected
There is a really basic free one made in Squeak! called TaalPulse for PC
Sounds pretty unpleasant but has a good selection of melodies...


Marc

__________________
**Marc Clayton**
http://www.TABLALAB.COM
TALACLASS and RIYAZ APPs out now for iPad.
Try them out at Tablalab.com
http://www.mecaudio.co.uk
0
pbercker

Registered:
Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "mangataot"
This is by no means a traditional option... but something very new and experimental!
Give it a try on the site and see what you think..

http://www.tablalab.com - Riyaz :1

There are numerous lehara/nagma machines out there for many platforms...
I think iLehara / iTabla for ios is well respected
There is a really basic free one made in Squeak! called TaalPulse for PC
Sounds pretty unpleasant but has a good selection of melodies...


Marc
Have you thought about including a lehara option on your app? I should think that not to difficult if you substitute instrumental sounds (something like santoor sounds best to me) instead of tabla sounds.


Pascal

__________________
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
0
mangataot

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #4 
Hi Pascalji,

Yep thought about that and whilst it is quite a good idea I think it would not be much of an improvement on what is already out there... Although I do have some pretty good Santoor sounds actually... Hmmmm.. Ok might be one to consider...

M.

__________________
**Marc Clayton**
http://www.TABLALAB.COM
TALACLASS and RIYAZ APPs out now for iPad.
Try them out at Tablalab.com
http://www.mecaudio.co.uk
0
fdf

Member
Registered:
Posts: 38
Reply with quote  #5 
For practice I use (apart from metronome) some mp3 I find on youtube, like
this one:


Do you know of any good lehera program for pc, apart from taalpulse, that would be useful? I don't have a tablet.
Thanks
0
mangataot

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #6 
Ideally, what raags and taals are you looking for in a Lehara machine?
__________________
**Marc Clayton**
http://www.TABLALAB.COM
TALACLASS and RIYAZ APPs out now for iPad.
Try them out at Tablalab.com
http://www.mecaudio.co.uk
0
pbercker

Registered:
Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "fdf"
For practice I use (apart from metronome) some mp3 I find on youtube, like
this one:


Do you know of any good lehera program for pc, apart from taalpulse, that would be useful? I don't have a tablet.
Thanks
I've listened to this one several times before. One thing that bothers me about it is the 16 metronome tick-tick that he included in the lehara which is rather too bad because the lehara melody is exquisitely played with great feeling and not at all mechanically. It would have been better to mark out maybe 4 key times (1, 5, 9, 13) rather than all 16 of them. But apart from that I can't emphasize enough that it's really a beautifully played little melody on the sarangi. One really gets a very clear sense that this person clearly loves, and has great feelings for, the sound of his sarengi.

side note: in the comment section someone suggested opening another youtube tab, look for "rainy moods" and play that simultaneously ... I've done so and it's actually quite a delightful combination. ("rainy moods" is simply 10 minutes of a rain and and occasional thunder ... sounds like a downpour actually ... by itself might still be interesting ... but it's the combination that works for me).



Pascal

__________________
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
0
pbercker

Registered:
Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "mangataot"
Ideally, what raags and taals are you looking for in a Lehara machine?
Could you do maybe a jaunty Scot Joplin rag in Latiftal (5 1/4)? ... Just kidding!

But non-Indian melodies have certainly been used before. There's a well known example of "Green Sleeves" being used by the late Ustad Ali Akbar Khan on Sarod to accompany the late Pt. Mahapurush Mishra on tabla (probably on youtube. If not I'll upload since I have it).

{masterpiece theater addict aside on: feel free to skip!}
(And as you no doubt know [being a brit!] Greensleeves is an English folk tune written by Henry the VIII for his second wife, Anne Boleyn, whom he loved very much. Indeed he loved her so much that 3 years later he had her beheaded by an expert french swordsman who took her head off in one clean single blow instead of using the more common axe, which ironically enough was later used on Thomas Cromwell who manufactured trumped up charges against Anne Boleyn. More gruesomely the axe was deliberately dulled for Cromwell's execution so that it would take many painful blows before his head finally came off! A witness said "He patiently suffered the axe of a miserly butcher who ungodly performed his office" .... This is all quite true, with the exception that Henry VIII never did in fact write Greensleeves, but it's a persistent myth! But surely this is more than you wanted to know about Greensleeves!)
{Masterpiece theater aside off}


(but if you're particularly ambitious, greensleeves is notated here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensleeves)


There's a number of raags that I very much like but I generally find that there's a rather large gap from the standard alap exposition of a raag and its barebone melodic outline in a lehara (and I'm sometimes hard pressed to hear the familiar raag I'm used to in the lehara itself.) This is especially true for very short time cycles like dadra (6) where just a few notes of the aroha-avaroha seem to be played (the ascending and descending note sequence of the raag). I would dearly love to know what the rules are for Leharas, and I've asked that before on the general discussions forum, but no one seems to know. If anyone has some useful info here it would be much appreciated.

So, which raags? ... Anything but Chandrakauns!

In any case, speaking for myself, my own preferences might be these:

Raags Bhoopali, Kalavati, Pahadi (this one is frequently heard in light classical Indian music - i.e. Dhuns)

Raags Rageshree/Bageshree (there not the same technically but often sound similar to each other in many ways).

Raag Marwa - this is a very moody contemplentive raag - probably hard to capture in a lehara.

Rag Jog is a very catchy melody to my ears.

Raag Abhogi (but probably only because that's the first rag I fell in love with when I first heard Ravi Shankar play it back when I was writing with a quill I think!)

(There's plenty more, but that's enough for illustrative purposes).


My own preference is for teental, but I should think that others might also want something in jhaptal, ektal and rupak tal maybe.

Typically, the lehara melody is played over a single cycle and then repeated over and over and over again which is why it can sometimes become a bit stale. What I wonder about is whether or not it might not be more interesting to make a lehara covering 2 or 3 (or more?) cycles that still clearly indicate where sam is, but varies the melodic outline a bit on each cycle to make it more interesting.

This seems to be done in fact on a tabla solo by U. Latif Ahmed Khan in dadra I uploaded sometime ago:



It should be noted however that this is not a pure tabla solo in that the tabla and sarengi take turns in soloing.


As I'm writing this it's occuring to me that maybe what's needed is something that's a bit more involved than a simple lehara but less complicated than a full blown exposition of a raag that would make practice a bit more relevant especially to those whose goal is to accompany instrumentalist. It seems to me that there's a big gap between practicing with a simple lehara and the goal of accompanying an instrument. It's this gap in resource material that an earlier post was alluding to when he wanted an example of a singer that was not accompanied by a tabla so that he could practice accompaniment. (I'm rather curious now whether or not anyone else has this kind of concern).



Pascal
p.s. I posted my initial question about rules for lehara here ...

http://forums.chandrakantha.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11249&p=68373&hilit=lehara#p68359

__________________
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
0
pbercker

Registered:
Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "mangataot"
Ideally, what raags and taals are you looking for in a Lehara machine?
This is a Bageshree melody I sometimes use for practice. I use it as a lehara, but technically it's a gat (something precomposed) in raag Begeshree.




It sounds quite lovely in spite of being mechanically played on swarshala 2.0. The instrument is meant to be a sarod, but sounds more like a santoor at times. Swarshala 2.0 also has a "sitar" instrument but it sounds bloody awful. I might upload that as well just for comparison. Swarshala does not handle meends (glides and bends) very well at all, but that's not really necessary for a lehara melody.

Note also that BPM (beats per minute, but also bols per minute!) might need to be a factor, in the sense that a more involved lehara at 60 bpm sounds fine but not so fine at say 200 bpm, and another simpler lehara may be needed for much higher speeds.


Pascal

__________________
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
0
pbercker

Registered:
Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pbercker"

p.s. I posted my initial question about rules for lehara here ...

http://forums.chandrakantha.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11249&p=68373&hilit=lehara#p68359
Success ... well, partial success anyway ... About possible rules for Lehara ...

... and a reply to my query on the sitar forum has also prompted another question ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pbercker"
I'm aware of course that the lehara is functions as the timekeeper (and not just for the tabla player, but the listener as well! Many a times I've gotten lost in the count and the lehara put me back on track!). That's an interesting point about a more sober raga (marwa for me) vs. a more lighthearted one (say Pahadi for me) depending perhaps on how the taal might be played. This makes me wonder whether or not the tabla player will actually request a particular raga over another, or if this is at the discretion of the lehara player.

In any case, in the meantime I have discovered one quite reasonable rule (from "Vintage Tabla Repertory", Gert-Matthias Wegner, page 29) which I've posted with the original post at ...

http://forums.chandrakantha.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11249&p=71436#p71436

In teental, the first note of a lehara (especially on sarengi) typically lingers - or extends - over the first 4 matras. Why? The plausible reason, according to Gert-Matthias Wegner, is that generally speaking the tabla variations tend to occur at the beginning of each cycle and the lehara should not obtrude in any way so that the audience can clearly hear it and make it out! The repeated part of the theme tends to come later in the cycle and the audience can reasonably be expected to already know the basic theme as they are repeated many times.
Pascal

__________________
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
0
pbercker

Registered:
Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "fdf"
For practice I use (apart from metronome) some mp3 I find on youtube, like
this one:


Do you know of any good lehera program for pc, apart from taalpulse, that would be useful? I don't have a tablet.
Thanks
Well .... this is not exactly a lehara ... but it does have the most salient feature of a lehara, namely that it's repetitive, but in a very interesting way.

This is called Six Pianos by Steve Reich (pulitzer prize winning composer, and one of my absolute all time favorites). Be warned that he is sometimes labeled as a "minimalist", so his style of music is often an acquired taste (but one that I acquired eons ago and have been addicted ever since).





I love practicing repetitive tabla phrases to this! Who needs a lehara when you have steve reich!


Pascal

__________________
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
0
mangataot

Registered:
Posts: 100
Reply with quote  #12 
Thanks for these ideas Pascal,

I'm pretty much engrossed in the TalaClass app now which is coming along nicely.
I'll have a demo of that ready shortly.
But I'm still interested in developing the idea of a Lehara app which is a bit more musical and intelligent for sure.

M.

__________________
**Marc Clayton**
http://www.TABLALAB.COM
TALACLASS and RIYAZ APPs out now for iPad.
Try them out at Tablalab.com
http://www.mecaudio.co.uk
0
evening84

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 513
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "pbercker"
This is called Six Pianos by Steve Reich (pulitzer prize winning composer, and one of my absolute all time favorites). Be warned that he is sometimes labeled as a "minimalist", so his style of music is often an acquired taste (but one that I acquired eons ago and have been addicted ever since).



I love practicing repetitive tabla phrases to this! Who needs a lehara when you have steve reich!
Pascal
Great idea, Pascal.

I can see how this can be excellent to use for practicing short phrases or short-phrases getting progressively denser. There are no hard and fast rules that govern what a lehera can and cannot be. Even if there were, rules can be broken. On long road-trips, I have frequently been subjected to every conceivable musical atrocity - teenage-boy-bands, Bollywood top ten, Top Forty countdown, Fad of the week, Gangnam style, Bang Them syle, you name it. I can just tune out all the junk - extract just the base rhythm and superimpose traditional tabla compositions on them. And then I can smile and just go with the flow.

__________________
My karma ran over your dogma
http://evening84.blogspot.com/
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.