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PAZ

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Posts: 58
Reply with quote  #1 
Here is a very nice discourse given on you tube by john J about how to bend the base and also a brife vilimbit teen taal as well.



hope you guys enjoy and lean somthing form it.


Realization is to get rid of the delusion that you have not realized.
Sri Ramana Maharshi
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PAZ

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Posts: 58
Reply with quote  #2 
Sorry guys got the link wrong.

here is the link for vilambit teen taal.



really good demo of how to play vilambit teen taal.

Peace is your natural state. It is the mind that obstructs the natural state.
Ramana Maharshi
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pbercker

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Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "PAZ"
Sorry guys got the link wrong.

here is the link for vilambit teen taal.



really good demo of how to play vilambit teen taal.

Peace is your natural state. It is the mind that obstructs the natural state.
Ramana Maharshi
I've seen a variety of placement styles for the bayan before but never one quite like this before where the shayi is closest to him instead of further away. The sahyi offset so that the palm has room for bending and pressing GEs and GAs.

On the other hand I think he plays quite well but I get the impression that the bayan is not as resonant as it could be. Still, in the final analysis, I downloaded it for further study ... I like it!

Pascal

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My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
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PAZ

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Posts: 58
Reply with quote  #4 
Pascal,

Is that not a common position for the dugga?

I normally play with sayhi away from me but only becouase my dugga is damaged. I thought sayhi on dugga should be closer to the tabla player.

Could you also plesase comment on the vilambit teen taal is it a good one to learn for beginners?

Thank you for comments.
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pbercker

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Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "PAZ"
Pascal,

Is that not a common position for the dugga?

I normally play with sayhi away from me but only becouase my dugga is damaged. I thought sayhi on dugga should be closer to the tabla player.

Could you also plesase comment on the vilambit teen taal is it a good one to learn for beginners?

Thank you for comments.
As far as I know it's extremely uncommon, and indeed I have *never* seen this before. If it works for him well then so be it, but I fear that for all intents and purposes it is a mistaken position. There is NO ONE CORRECT position for the Bayan, but a RANGE of good positions so as to maximize the resonance of the bayan. You can tilt it more to the left or to the right but he has completely turned it around. The Syahi is offset to make room for the palm, and the fingers should strike the smaller area on the other side, otherwise the palm winds up touching the syahi and muting it which is generally not what you want. I will confess that I am actually astounded that he positions his bayan that way because it would otherwise be labeled a beginner's mistake, but he clearly is quite experienced at playing, and indeed plays rather well and is clearly knowledgeable on the rest of it.

I well and truly don't get it!

Any ideas anyone?

For anyone who is unsure the acid test is simply to take your bayan and and try that way above and the right way and see which works and sounds better.

Pascal

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My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
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Vivek

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Is that not a common position for the dugga?
It is very common for Banaras tabla players to use this bayan position. Of course, players from other gharanas are welcome to it, and some do use it. It reduces the resonance of the bayan dramatically, but also allows for easy modulation of pitch compared to keeping the shyahi away from you. There is nothing incorrect about this position, but it does require different hand articulation to sound good. Also, it should be used appropriately - because it limits resonance, I would personally never use it while playing, for example, peshkar or vilambit theka. However, it can sound great with fast compositions with a lot of bayan sliding. Such compositions are, as we might expect, common in Banaras repertoire. Example:
Dhiga Dhina tirakita Dhina Dhagena tike tin nanatike tina tirakita Dhina Dhagena Dhiga Dhin nana

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pbercker

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Posts: 1,451
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Vivek"
Quote:
Is that not a common position for the dugga?
It is very common for Banaras tabla players to use this bayan position. Of course, players from other gharanas are welcome to it, and some do use it. It reduces the resonance of the bayan dramatically, but also allows for easy modulation of pitch compared to keeping the shyahi away from you. There is nothing incorrect about this position, but it does require different hand articulation to sound good. Also, it should be used appropriately - because it limits resonance, I would personally never use it while playing, for example, peshkar or vilambit theka. However, it can sound great with fast compositions with a lot of bayan sliding. Such compositions are, as we might expect, common in Banaras repertoire. Example:
Dhiga Dhina tirakita Dhina Dhagena tike tin nanatike tina tirakita Dhina Dhagena Dhiga Dhin nana
There's an old saying to the effect that one should choose one's words carefully, in case you have to eat them! But no matter how carefully I choose my words so as not to step in it as it were, I still manage to get tripped up somewhere along the way. I truly thought this was uncommon bayan position and i've been attending concerts for over 15 years and have never ever seen *that* position before, and I've certainly seen a variety of (and experimented with) different positions. It must be that I've never seen a benares tabla player in all my years of concert going!

So I stand corrected!

Still, it looks mighty impractical to me. It seems to defeat the purpose of offsetting the syahi in the first place and adopting different hand techniques to accomodate the self-imposed handicap! Looks to me like too much effort to walk through an unlocked door!

This is certainly a teachable moment as they say: no matter how totally and obviously wrong something appears to be, don't bet the house on it. I think that from now on I'm just going to preface absolutely everything I say with an escape clause like: While I could be wrong, is this not so and so ....?

BTW, has anyone ever tried playing the bayan upside down? I'm serious actually, but depending on your bayan, the round heel at the bottom of the bayan can sometimes produce a very lovely if somewhat tin-like sound!


So, while I could be wrong, I am yours sincerely,

Pascal
p.s. thanks for the correction.

__________________
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.
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bhilaj51

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Posts: 54
Reply with quote  #8 
Hi , interesting your observations on the way i play the bayan, The great Shampta Prasad of Benares Gharana plays it this way and i regard him as one of if not the best bayan player ever , i did start with baya spot more to the front although a lot of players Zakir inc play it at about 2 oclock - personally i find it quite a boomy sound and it does not offer me the tight pop finger sound i prefer but i do play it more to the front sometimes but not often, I hear most beginners have a very boomy baya sound and they dont concentrate on the finger sound control by getting swayed by the illusion of a boomy baya sound to try and sound like tabla players but at the end of the day its personal choice and i would play the spot at 9 o clock if i fekt it gave me a better sound ------------- I noticed a query about playing the baya upside down and although i dont elaborate long you can (if you wish) hear me do a little bit at 2 minutes into my short version of Electric layaland demonstrations on youtube here :-
happy trails JJM
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TablaBeatz

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Posts: 342
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "bhilaj51"
Hi , interesting your observations on the way i play the bayan, The great Shampta Prasad of Benares Gharana plays it this way and i regard him as one of if not the best bayan player ever , i did start with baya spot more to the front although a lot of players Zakir inc play it at about 2 oclock - personally i find it quite a boomy sound and it does not offer me the tight pop finger sound i prefer but i do play it more to the front sometimes but not often, I hear most beginners have a very boomy baya sound and they dont concentrate on the finger sound control by getting swayed by the illusion of a boomy baya sound to try and sound like tabla players but at the end of the day its personal choice and i would play the spot at 9 o clock if i fekt it gave me a better sound ------------- I noticed a query about playing the baya upside down and although i dont elaborate long you can (if you wish) hear me do a little bit at 2 minutes into my short version of Electric layaland demonstrations on youtube here :-
happy trails JJM
Bhilaj - I never thought about bayan position like you mentioned. I think I am of the category where do I place it in the 2 oclock "most boomy" position - I think I'll try the different positions and work on that finger control more !

Cheers

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"The beginning of life is rhythm. When you’re in the womb your mother’s heart is beating at (about 90) decibels ... we were born of vibration 13.7 billion years ago with the explosion of the universe."
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