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adunc069

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Reply with quote  #1 
So for some time now, I've been listening to the Dagar family. After combining: a few years of practicing sitar every day, listening to Shahid Parvez for every day for about 2 1/2 years straight, and learning from Ustadji I'm starting to really understand how to develop a proper alap and hear the vocal in sitar. Especially hearing Ustadji play alap, then hearing the same thing from Dagar recordings, very cool stuff. Any ways, I thought I'd plug the Dagar alap style. A favorite of mine is their Shankara alap from http://sarangi.info/vocal

Anybody have a good version of Malashri they could suggest?

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jaan e kharabat

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hello,

you don't have to only consider Dhrupad when you are looking for good Alaap ideas. Khiyal in most gharanas except for Agra incorporate alapi in their vilambit khiyal vistaar. The likes of Bhimsen Joshi and Amir Khan, who take a very systematic approach to raga developement, are a great source of alaap ideas. Just listen to their khiyal presentations, especially before the sections before the sargam and tanabazi. They very much develope the raga according to the ideas of the dhrupad alap excepting the fact that they sing it to the meter of the tal. They start with alapi exploring the mandra saptak, then they gradually work their way up the scales to the madhya and tar saptak. Then they bring it all together with their tans and sargam work. So except for jor and jhalla ideas, every other element of alap is there in the khiyal. You just have to listen with a little more concentration because there is the constant return to the tal cycle in the form of the mukhda of sthayi.

And Malashri, well there is a very good performance of this raga on the sarangi.info site that you mention by the great Ustad Sarahang. Sarahang was taught in the Patiala tradition but he does develope the khiyal in more systematic way than many of his confreres, like Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali khan who takes a much more inspiration of the moment approach.

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sitariya

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Reply with quote  #3 
You can get aalap ideas from both Drupad and Khayal. On sitar, you can look at Ravi Shankar or Nikhil Banerjee alap for Drupad style. Vilayat Khan took most inspiration primarily from Khayal. I personally listen to vocal music for ideas (Amir Khan/Kishori/Bhimsen/Mansur)
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adunc069

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Reply with quote  #4 
That sounds like great sugestions but I can't stray from Shahid Parvez style. Before I knew or understood anything about ICM, like right when I first got devoted to learning about it, the style of Ravi Shankar (and I listened to ALOT of Ravi at the start) never actually apealed to me. Particularly the low Sa and Pa strings. for some reason I've prefered the Imdad style. It just seems clearer to me. The style of the Maihar (in my humble and non-court-family-lineage-opinion) thinks it's too unstructured.

I belive inspiration is key for this music, but everything needs structure. Like if a coach is trying to motivate his team, he'll/she'll probably talk abouot wining etc... He/She won't stop in the middle, go to the bathroom, have a coffee, start talking about the weather, maybe talk about what they ate for lunch, oh yeah we are going to win this game team. go team go, oh yeah last week I saw a really good film last week about this guy, oh wait that game we going to win, oh well, let's talk about something else like horse racing.

On the other other hand, and Imdad style alap for me is like going on a nicely guided tour of an alap building. ok folks on your left you will see a lovely Sa accompanied by an occasional flick of the Ni tarab, ok let's line out all those nice countering notes closest to Sa, oh, on you're right ladies and gentleman we see a lovely komal Re, right beneath a Ni glides gently past Sa to re komal and back down to Sa. Look at that definition folks, just look at it.

I have come to these conclusions after years of vested research, 546 trips to india last year, and listening to 7,890,435 alaps all different in length, rag and gharana style, ANd if you thought you had too much time on your hands..........

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daz199

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Reply with quote  #5 
damn this guys loves his ICM 8)
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Joshua Feinberg

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Reply with quote  #6 
hi,

i respect your love and respect of this music. and also your poetic description of the alap. i must, :-) however respond to your coments to the Maihar alap.

the Maihar alap is based on Dhrupad. there are two basic styles of alap- bandan and coyed. bandan is literally revealing one note at a time, the classic dhrupad way. coyed is more phrase based- like khayal and Vilayat Khansahib. i know you weren't being offensive, but i'd like to take a minute to discuss the structure of the Maihar alap. first of all, it is EXTREAMLY structured. one may even say it is more strict than the Imdad Khani way. The classic example of Maihar is Ustad Ali Akbar Khan of course. He, and most other Maihar musicians use a more bandan approach for the heavier material, and a more coyed approach for the lighter material. If you listen to Khansahib play Darbari, he'll use a very strict, one note at a time device. The first way to develop is of course down to the low sa. Then one procedes back down to the very low sa and back up. Then the middle register is explored, and finally the antara of the alap is played exposing the upper sa. Then the Dha to Dha is explored before going to the register above high sa. Finally, the very high register is explored up to the high pa, and perhaps beyond. Then the whole proces begins again in Jor. Then one proceds to gamak Jor, and then Jor Tan, before the Jhalla. Khansahib says the alap is devided into 27 parts ( I can't say that I know all of them :-) ) But suffice it to say, it is EXTREAMLY structured, it just may be a structure that may not be apparent to someone that hasn't learned it that way. For example if someone has never learned Khayal, then there may not appear to be an order in the presentation, when there actually is quite a bit of it.

also, while Nikhilda and Khansahib (Ali Akbar Khansahib) are often noted for their Dhrupad ang stlye, one would be very wise to also check out their lighter stuff. one thing which i find so delightful about their playing is the range that they encompas-from Thurmri and other light forms to the heavyist of the heavy. It can be austere, or extreamly floral. listen to Khansahib's Khamaj, or Nikhilda's Bhairavi and you'll see what i mean.

and of course, i love and respect the Imdad Khani way of playing.

best,

jf

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David Russell Watson

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Naad
there are two basic styles of alap- bandan and coyed. bandan is literally revealing one note at a time, the classic dhrupad way. coyed is more phrase based- like khayal and Vilayat Khansahib.
Is 'coyed' an alternate spelling for 'qaid'?

If so, 'qaid alap', meaning literally "strict alap", is
supposed to refer to the same thing as 'bandhan
alap', which means literally "bound alap".

The only difference is that 'qaid alap' is normally
Urdu usage and 'bandhan alap' is Hindi.

David
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