Indian Music Forums

Acceptable Cost for tabla skins. PERCUSSIVE INSTRUMENTS
Reply
183 posts Vivek 183 posts
Vivek
Aanaddha wrote:
Vivek wrote:
For reference, the price I'm getting in India for high-quality puris from reputable vendors is 600 INR (about $13.75) including labor of replacing the puri. I can see the cost getting double when shipping, etc are included, but $45 is definitely a bit much.
V.,
Please claify,... you're getting your tablas completely re-headed for $14.00 ea.??
How much would you pay for a shell, and what's a new dayan cost, complete?
Yes, I am. I don't know how much it would cost for just a shell (it seems like it wouldn't make sense to just buy a shell when an expert craftsman could also provide a head and assemble it for you.) A full set from Hanif of Sheikh Maqbool musicals is 7000rs, and iirc the breakdown is 2500 for the dayan and 4500 for the bayan. This is a bit on the expensive side (I got a professional set in Mumbai last year for 4500 - 1500 for the dayan and 3000 for the bayan) but is well worth it for the incredible tonal quality of his tablas.
Keshavdas wrote:
So I have to say, that as much as I like and know Vivek - I can't imagine where in heck he could get a first-class pudi purchased and mounted for that cost. Maybe in Calcutta if he really shopped around - but not at any of the really well-known maker's shops.
Granted, things have gotten more expensive in the last four years, but prices in Mumbai are still considerably higher than those in Pune. Not to mention this was directly from the maker, and not through an intermediary. These factors considered, I was still pretty shocked at the price myself, but that is what it cost, and the sound was quite unlike anything I had ever heard, in a good way.
wilsaxo wrote:
We are so spoiled by our buying power here in the US that we have no idea of the bargain that a $45 great sounding pudi represents, especially if it gives 7 years of service!
This is indeed a great value, but of course, it is not a normal situation. Most heads only last 6 months at performance quality, and a little over a year at practice quality. Even this would be a good value, but as many others have mentioned, the value quickly diminishes with the need to buy multiple heads due to compatibility issues, and the amount of time invested before discovering how the head will sound.

Regarding the ongoing scuffle in this thread, I have to say that Keshav bhai's price of $25 per head is more than fair for the U.S., especially considering the availability of customer service - impossible if you get them shipped from India. I also, however, understand the ire generated regarding his statements regarding the ignorance of the mass populace concerning the difficulty of NYC retail. These statements could be hurtful to an Indian shopkeeper who has to deal with far more difficult hurdles, such as corrupt officials, bakshi money, power/water shortages, low social standing, and a generally much lower standard of living. I know Keshav's statements were not said with the wrong spirit, but could have definitely struck a nerve. That being said, can't we all be friends and play nice?

- V -
Love All, Serve All
Reply 0 0
tablafreak 548 posts
tablafreak
Ok, im shopping for a tabla skin and gatta. I was appauled by a quote one vendor gave me.

$45 for a skin
$3.95 each for tabla gatta?

I know weve been through this topic before about customs, shipping etc, but the above prices are way out of line. Even AACM doesnt charge this much for the same items listed above. Just wondering what other peoples experiences were in buying skins, accessories etc.

By the way im located in the US and looking for a US based vendor.
youtube.com/tablasolo
Reply 0 0
Aanaddha 1,932 posts
Aanaddha
tf,
Yep... that's about the cost nowdays ... for premium heads. I get mine from friends who bring them back from India trips in their luggage and from fellow musicians when they tour the US.
What size do you need - I've got a few spares and I'm doing less re-heading (bad back). PM me.
A.
If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
Reply 0 0
tablafreak 548 posts
tablafreak
Wow!

I havnt had to buy a skin in about 7 years! My 5.5" finally gave way last weekend. Is the economy really that bad? Is the dolalr really that weak now adays!!!
youtube.com/tablasolo
Reply 0 0
Aanaddha 1,932 posts
Aanaddha
tablafreak wrote:
Wow!

I havnt had to buy a skin in about 7 years! My 5.5" finally gave way last weekend. Is the economy really that bad? Is the dolalr really that weak now adays!!!
I think it's more like demand, maybe they're a little less expensive in India, but the price has gone up for them also. As somone mentioned earlier most tabla players have the heads replaced or the syahi re-made in the shop so seperate heads are generally for foreign buyers anyway. Again, I'm talking only about quality heads from well-respected makers. I'm certain you can still find so-so pudis for $30.- $35.
If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
Reply 0 0
Aanaddha 1,932 posts
Aanaddha
Vivek wrote:
For reference, the price I'm getting in India for high-quality puris from reputable vendors is 600 INR (about $13.75) including labor of replacing the puri. I can see the cost getting double when shipping, etc are included, but $45 is definitely a bit much.
V.,
Please claify,... you're getting your tablas completely re-headed for $14.00 ea.??
How much would you pay for a shell, and what's a new dayan cost, complete?
If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
Reply 0 0
sohummusicals 601 posts
sohummusicals
tablafreak wrote:
$45 for a skin
$3.95 each for tabla gatta?
Reply 0 0
tablafreak 548 posts
tablafreak
Not sure what the above post by upendra is intended to convey. Can you clarify?
youtube.com/tablasolo
Reply 0 0
Vivek 183 posts
Vivek
For reference, the price I'm getting in India for high-quality puris from reputable vendors is 600 INR (about $13.75) including labor of replacing the puri. I can see the cost getting double when shipping, etc are included, but $45 is definitely a bit much.

- V -

P.S. Re: gatta, these are probably the easiest item to make at home. All you need is a saw and a wooden dowel (very cheap at any Home Depot or Lowe's)
Love All, Serve All
Reply 0 0
wilsaxo 163 posts
wilsaxo
We are so spoiled by our buying power here in the US that we have no idea of the bargain that a $45 great sounding pudi represents, especially if it gives 7 years of service! That's only $6.43 a year or less than 13 cents a week. If we were to have these made in the US (all of the materials are available here) by a craftsmen paid on par with those here of equal skill as the best tabla makers (the best instrument repair techs in the US are currently charging around $90 per hour) we would probably suffer physical and emotional harm from the sticker shock alone. I'm sure that at least a full day's labor goes into making a pudi from scratch (anyone out there got an accurate time?). I've never done this but I have applied syhai and this takes a long time; far longer then anyone here would be willing to pay the US labor cost for.

There are a lot of crappy pudis out there sold by many US sources that just sound like cardboard but look beautiful. Many even have "Artist Quality" stamped on them or are called "Special" and the prices of those vary on the internet from $24 to $49 for the same useless head. Any seller in North America who carries high quality pudis has gone through much research (pain?) and expense (perhaps even on useless crap) to end up with pudis that will consistently sound great for their customers. They usually buy in some kind of quantity to get the best price and to stock the variety of sizes and styles that their customers would like. This inventory does not fly out of their stores/warehouses/garages/storage spaces/websites, so I would guess that it would take months to just break even on the expense of acquiring this inventory. I doubt that monthly pudi sales can even pay the electric bill at either the AACM store or Keshav's. No one is getting rich selling a $45 or $55 pudi. "Here you are sir, thanks for your pruchase, I'm off to Disneyland!"

From my own experience in buying and installing pudis over the past year and a half:

Keshav's = visited last week and got an amazing sounding 5 1/4' benares from his well stocked box of pudis (I didn't even dig through as K had invited me to and just took the one off of the top) Thanks Keshav! I miss the old NYC and love how a tiny space can be fit with so much great stuff.

Mid-East = got the cheapest price from one of their many internet sellers but not worth it trouble installing such sad sounding stuff. I got a great bargain buying a gorgous, heavy, black sheshum Sadanand dayan off of ebay that had one of the dead sounding pudis stamped "Calcutta Deluxe" (not sure the source but I'll bet it was inexpensive). I'm glad it sounded so bad and that he didn't like playing it any longer. If it had been re-headed with the Benares head from Keshav's it would never have ended up on ebay.

Sitarsetc = I've installed many of their Parampara heads, (I like Calcutta style) Ghandarva Master mostly. In fact I installed one on the Sadanand dayan and boy does it sing! It has the widest tuning range with rich tone and clarity (G# - C#) of any of my dayans. Their Parampara student pudis are a bargain at $30 each, are Calcutta style and sound amazing. Since the passing of Bharat the future of Sitarsetc is uncertain so I would get these while they are still in stock and organized enough that they know what they are sending out when they pick the order. They got my last one right so I can still recommend in the short term.

Rain City Music = they are now the source for the Parampara line of tablas but only the professional instruments. Tabla accessories page is not up yet but contact Lars about availability. He had told me that he expected pudis in by this time (August).

Kala Kendar = I got a Mukta Das 5" dayan that I installed on a cheap, light shell and it sings just like an expensive dayan

Best of luck buying new pudis. Go for the bargain in quality. If the pudi lasts a year then $50 is only $4.17 a month, $.96 a week, just 14 cents a day! The sound you will get is worth so much more! Just remember that if the best tabla maker were in the US and paid what his level of skill commanded in the US hand made artist quality musical instrument market, you would be charged many times that amount . Enjoy this bargain while you still can. Or spend the travel time, airfare, intestinal gymnastics, and everything else involved, and pretend that it only cost you $10 or whatever low 3rd World price you paid and can claim bragging rights to. After all we all love to mention our amazing bargains especially for musical instruments.

Cheers,
David
Reply 0 0
tablafreak 548 posts
tablafreak
Hey David,

Thanks for the vendor reviews. I dont mind paying the $45 for a good pudi mindo you. But There have been many times where it has been "hit or miss". My biggest pet peeve is spending hours reheading a good shell only to find that it not really a good head!

doh!!!!
youtube.com/tablasolo
Reply 0 0
wilsaxo 163 posts
wilsaxo
tablafreak wrote:
Hey David,

Thanks for the vendor reviews. I dont mind paying the $45 for a good pudi mindo you. But There have been many times where it has been "hit or miss". My biggest pet peeve is spending hours reheading a good shell only to find that it not really a good head!

doh!!!!
Isn't that the worst feeling after spending all of that time and your hands are aching and you have just installed a dud! I had no idea until I installed the good stuff. I could imagine how the good vendors had to find out the hard way, with unhappy paying customers, if they had good product or not. I feel confident with the vendors I recommended, as far as their top quality stuff goes. I've never dealt with the AACM store but I imagine that they know what they're doing.

David
Reply 0 0
Aanaddha 1,932 posts
Aanaddha
Good idea to ask the vendor how long the puddi has been in storage - sometimes the skin dries out and becomes brittle with age, other times the cycle of humidity over months and years will loosen the syahi. Also take a good sniff for any sign of mold before you start lacing, if it smells like mold toss it or return it. A good head will also come with the size (+/-) and optimum tuning penciled on the back. From my experience, a good-fitting, quality puddi will be a joy to pull, jumping easily to the optimum pitch and stay there without a great deal of fuss. Another tip - don't use heavy Bombay straps on thin Calcutta heads and vice-versa. ( Despite various rumors to the contrary, never 'wet' the heads or the tasma and I never let any kind of moisture or humidity anywhere near your pudis or shells.)

... p.s. don't foget to remove any string beneath the chat before you begin lacing.
If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?
Reply 0 0
tablafreak 548 posts
tablafreak
Even at aacm, the quality was hit or miss. I think the last skin I bought there was a vishnu head which cost me about $45.00 as well, and that wasnt that great either.

Btw, the skins that lasted 7 years actually came made on the drum. So I never had to change them at all. I think my error was, that I had gone to play with a sitarist and he was at D. I tried my best to get the drum up there, and because it was a hot day the skin split. If I kept it at C where it was quite happy, the skin would have been quite fine. My error....Oh well you live and learn. I think ill reserve my 5.25" for D playing and keep my 5.5" at C.
youtube.com/tablasolo
Reply 0 0
pumpik 191 posts
pumpik
Could someone please list out the attributes of good pudis and how one should go about selecting them? Or is that so subjective that it has to be "felt" but can't be described? It would certainly help people when they have to choose from a stock of 50 or so.

I am going to India myself in December and would like to purchase a pair of spare pudis for my Kali 1 tabla and Bayan, so some precise guidance will certainly come in useful.

Thanks
Reply 0 0
hbajpai 892 posts
hbajpai
I am fortunate enough to know how to strap my own tabla's. I am also fortunate enough to have access to India where I can get my pudi's either by my self or via someone. I firmly believe learning how to strap is a much needed skill for people outside of India. Search this forum and google and you will find many, awesome instructions.

I feel that 30-35 is a fair price. 40 to 50 is too much, unless Zakir ji picks them and they come off of his tabla's. Kidding! Seriously, but that's a little too much unless quality, sound and sur is assured with exchange/reutrn provisions. I understand that even at 50, cost per day is very less. I typically buy my pudi's from Upendra or from Kanpur. Lately, all have been from Upendra and they are good.

One thing to keep in mind is the pudi making process and the materials used. What I mean here is when one orders a ready made pudi, its made on a shell that is different than the shell its finally used on. Secondly, during the making process, the pudi is moistened and allowed to take form and shape of the shell its made on while the shell its placed on has its own characteristics. Finally, the density of wood, shape of the wood, and the air column determines the shai application, which determines the sound.

So, to all ready made pudi assemblers - including myself, we have an uphill battle right at the start. In India, when one gives their shell to be pudi'd, a custom pudi is made for that shell. I think its obvious, but no two shells with identical diameters are alike.

There is no way to know how a pudi will sound unless its on that tabla. Some qualities to look for are: Roundness, clear skin (no embedded splinters), even skin (even thickness - hold it up against light), tight, even, smooth shai, 16 holes for straps with even spacings between them and 3 slits between each of the strap holes, even sized strap holes, no dammage or wrinkles to the skin layers, presence of bharti, even and neatly assembled bharti, nice fit on your shell, etc. etc.

At the end of the day if you are making a blind purchase with no return or exchange provisions and no access to the source and CAN afford it, buy 2 of the same size cause at the end of the day, it sucks to learn, play, and practice on crappy sounding tabla's.

I also have some spare pudi's as well. PM me with your needs and I can see if I have your size. 25$ a pudi is my price. I guarantee the pudi quality, but do not guarantee ones ability to put it on the tabla, which unfortunately is impossible to prove for me, so I guess the Pudi's are "as-is" :-)
Reply 0 0
Reply