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Sitarismylife

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Reply with quote  #16 
Yes, why not? Seven note meends are possible. But this is possible only in some cases, like where the notes are in close proximity. For example in Bhairavi, you could go all the way from upper sa to pa, hitting all the notes that come in between. Or starting from re, it would become a seven note meend. On a surbahar even more notes are possible. But that is when you’re doing it in one go. If you go back and forth on the fret, the resonance will die out after hitting a few notes.
And one more thing, catch randyh first for saying that even a 10 note meend can be done(just joking). What did randyh mean by tightening of the string?
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povster

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Sitarismylife"
Yes, why not? Seven note meends are possible. But this is possible only in some cases, like where the notes are in close proximity. For example in Bhairavi, you could go all the way from upper sa to pa, hitting all the notes that come in between.
That is what I was trying to determine. To me it is only 4 notes being slid:

1st mir) s - r
2nd) r - g
3rd) g - m
4th) m - p

My assumption, when folks refer to a multi note mir, is that they are referring to whole notes as opposed to including the half steps in between.

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Sitarismylife

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Reply with quote  #18 
Oh I see. But it again goes to show that the sustenance on the sitar is very less as compared to other Indian lutes like Rudra veena. However, I am still not clear about what randyh said. What does tightening the string mean and how can it help to increase the sustenance?
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Sitarismylife

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Reply with quote  #19 
Oh I see.
But you said only half the thing.
Meend with three notes(sa,re,ga) on the same fret can be:
1. sa-re re-ga
2. sa-re-ga
There is a difference between the two. The sound dies out sooner in the first case.
Also, when I gave the example of Bhairavi, I didn’t mean anything different. I was talking about the higher notes. The meend in the manner of your example will be:
1st mir) g*a-r*e
2nd) r*e-s*a
3rd) s*a-Ni
4th) Ni-ni
5th) ni-Dha
6th) Dha-dha
7th) dha-Pa

But it again goes to show that the sustenance on the sitar is very less as compared to other Indian lutes like Rudra veena. However, I am still not clear about what randyh said. What does tightening the string mean and how can it help to increase the sustenance?
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povster

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Sitarismylife"
Oh I see.
But you said only half the thing.
Meend with three notes(sa,re,ga) on the same fret can be:
1. sa-re re-ga
2. sa-re-ga
There is a difference between the two. The sound dies out sooner in the first case.
Also, when I gave the example of Bhairavi, I didn’t mean anything different. I was talking about the higher notes. The meend in the manner of your example will be:
1st mir) g*a-r*e
2nd) r*e-s*a
3rd) s*a-Ni
4th) Ni-ni
5th) ni-Dha
6th) Dha-dha
7th) dha-Pa

But it again goes to show that the sustenance on the sitar is very less as compared to other Indian lutes like Rudra veena. However, I am still not clear about what randyh said. What does tightening the string mean and how can it help to increase the sustenance?
OK, I see what you are saying. When people refer to a "6 note mir" or a "7 note mir", though, they are usually referring to how far you can slide on the fret, as opposed to how many notes you can go back and forth between. Depending on the action and setup of the instrument, the straight distance from one first note to last note will definitely vary. It also varies based on where you are fretting (low Pa fret, for example, will be more restrictive due to the very short string length.)

Just an aside, the rudra vin is not a lute but a stick zither. The sitar and surbahar are lutes. They have soundboards and generate sound through the wood's vibrations. The rudra vin has no sound board. It generates sound by pushing a column of air through the neck which exits through and is amplified by the two large gourds.

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randyh

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Reply with quote  #21 
Hi,

My teacher explains this better than me, but tightening the string brings it "back to life again". You can get up to 10 or more notes if you time this correctly. Timing is everything. Meend too soon, the sympathetics eat up the tone. Meend to late and there is not that "last breath" available.

If you hold a string tight against the wall and pluck it, you can increase volume just before it dies by pulling it again at the near death part. So. . .

My teacher explains that you can get a few notes in the first breath of the meend, then there are techniques for getting more in the second and sometimes third breath such as one pluck doing - - small meend or just a note, then close notes and finally a hard 6-7 note pull for a final breath - this can lead to many notes if crafted well.

I hope this makes sense. It is a truly remarkable technique and idea and when I first started learning this I was really amazed. Still am. That's how those players get such long meends with 12 or more clear notes, shrutis, and harmonics in one pluck full of expression.
Randy
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Sitarismylife

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Reply with quote  #22 
Thank you povster for that little piece of information on rudra vin. As for the technique that randyh explained, I wouldn’t try it unless I see it from the teacher himself.
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nicneufeld

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Reply with quote  #23 
What Randy says applies to the more widely known techniques on guitar, in the West. Simply the act of bending a string or even just applying vibrato adds energy back into the string and can "sustain the sustain" as it were. Wrenching a long meend just as a note is decaying away can add just enough string energy to get a few more notes audible across the soundboard. This is why rock guitarists have the bad habit of adding vibrato to every note they want to sing out a bit longer...it can keep that string singing a bit longer. It's funny, until I started in with Indian music and became aware of our reputation as guitarists to over-vibrato everything, I never noticed this phenomenom, but now I can't listen to a pop or rock song without hearing that overdone pitch quavering all over the place...
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nad4362

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Reply with quote  #24 
does this look useful?

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Sitarismylife

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Reply with quote  #25 
a seven note meend by pt. nikhil banerjee from 8:08
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